Curse

LifeInfusion · Nov 30, 2005, 04:26 AM // 04:26

I don't care.

At the end of the day, my 15>50 collector's weapons do just as much as any 15>50 eternal/crystalline/whatnot.

Guardian of the Light · Nov 30, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

*YAWN* are you gusy still argueing about that....o well I'm more neutral now I don't really care if they nerf farming or not I'll just go SF farm if they do.

Happy Debating

Red Sonya · Nov 30, 2005, 09:54 AM // 09:54

If there wasn't the ablity to solo farm in this game, many people would already have left or wouldn't have bought the game. I actually bought it because I read and heard it was "solo friendly". I've left countless other mmorpgs because they were group/guild "forced" oriented.

When I sit down for entertainment I don't like to be told how to play or who I must play with. For the most part I don't like other people, especially strangers, and in this game and most others, there's way too many children. (99.9% retards). Yes, I'm exageraing.

But, I enjoy my alone time in the game just as much as I do in real life. Not everyone is a socializer, and many would say why not just play a single player game offline then. Well I pay $30 a month for a connection to the internet, I might as well get something back out of it besides an email account, don'tcha think?

I've enjoyed every moment of GW's. I've grouped, been in guilds (never stayed, too many bossy kids lol) BTW ANY ADULT GUILDS OUT THERE over 20ish more 30ish??

I just can't deal with juviniles telling me how to play my character. Was the same in other mmorpgs, like they had more experience than I did and I can play these games 12 hours a day plus if I want to. (Retired at 45

) Son is grown off into his own world, parents are dead, GF left me for the milkman I think lol (I'd still like to shake his hand)

They just don't understand us guys gotta have our gaming and alone time. lol

But, at any rate the vote is YES for SOLO farming, and I'm neutral on invicimonks, they don't affect my gameplay whatsoever. I don't buy anything from any other players (sell a lot though), I go out and look for it myself. I don't see any challenge or fun in "buying" everything one gets. Cause after level 20 and you got all your skills, farming is all that's really left unless you are into total pvp and I do that from time to time, but, constantly doing it just gets as boring as anything else.

So keep farming in, and increase the gold drops some more.

Orbberius · Nov 30, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

If there wasn't the ablity to solo farm in this game, many people would already have left or wouldn't have bought the game. I actually bought it because I read and heard it was "solo friendly". I've left countless other mmorpgs because they were group/guild "forced" oriented.

When I sit down for entertainment I don't like to be told how to play or who I must play with. For the most part I don't like other people, especially strangers, and in this game and most others, there's way too many children. (99.9% retards). Yes, I'm exageraing.

But, I enjoy my alone time in the game just as much as I do in real life. Not everyone is a socializer, and many would say why not just play a single player game offline then. Well I pay $30 a month for a connection to the internet, I might as well get something back out of it besides an email account, don'tcha think?

I've enjoyed every moment of GW's. I've grouped, been in guilds (never stayed, too many bossy kids lol) BTW ANY ADULT GUILDS OUT THERE over 20ish more 30ish??

I just can't deal with juviniles telling me how to play my character. Was the same in other mmorpgs, like they had more experience than I did and I can play these games 12 hours a day plus if I want to. (Retired at 45

) Son is grown off into his own world, parents are dead, GF left me for the milkman I think lol (I'd still like to shake his hand)

They just don't understand us guys gotta have our gaming and alone time. lol

But, at any rate the vote is YES for SOLO farming, and I'm neutral on invicimonks, they don't affect my gameplay whatsoever. I don't buy anything from any other players (sell a lot though), I go out and look for it myself. I don't see any challenge or fun in "buying" everything one gets. Cause after level 20 and you got all your skills, farming is all that's really left unless you are into total pvp and I do that from time to time, but, constantly doing it just gets as boring as anything else.

So keep farming in, and increase the gold drops some more.

You see, the real problem with solo-farming is that there is an imbalance in loot distribution between playing solo and playing in a group. In a group, you get 1/8th of what a solo-farmer gets. This causes people to feel like they HAVE to solo-farm to make money like everyone else. If being in a group of 8 gave as much loot in the same amount of time as solo-farming, there would be no problem, and you could still solo-farm if that is the way you want to play, without any penalties for doing so.

Divinus Stella · Nov 30, 2005, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Its more fun to farm in a group, but farming is done for the cash, so i can spend 3hrs in UW doing quests with friends and get 0 ecto, 1 if im REALLY lucky, or spend 1hr solo and get 5-6 ecto, id much prefer going into UW with a group of friends and gettin the same drops.
Perhpas if they stopped nerfing skills and drops, but instead made the drop rate proportional to the number of players in the team then they would have no problem with farmers.

I know exactly how you feel Red, im not that old, just about an adult, but i cant stand the kids in this game, you go into pvp and get some bossy little 14yr old with his wolf avatar telling you how to play, they seem to get disillusioned by their in-game achievements, not understanding that an MMO does not requite skill or intelligence to succeed.

alexcave · Nov 30, 2005, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Anet's attitude towards solo farming is debatable. but unfortunately their actions affect all the solo farmers in the game.

All of the nerfs are not specifically aimed at the regular Joe Soaps out there, but are aimed at farming agents and sweatshops that intend to sell the gold on ebay. We all know of the guys that are online 24/7 in Lion's Arch selling more perfect items than it is humanly possible to get as a single solo farmer. These practices push prices up so ridiculously that the rest of us have to resort to solo farming just to keep up with the prices.

WTS absolutly rubbish fiery dragon sword with mediocre mods (100k + 2 ecto).......when this stops, solo farming will not be as necessary as it is now.

I like solo farming, but in 2000 hrs have only found a handful of perfect items....but if various forms of coloured fruit (you know who I mean) are selling perfect items 24/7 in LA...Anet really does need to do something about it.

Red Sonya · Nov 30, 2005, 01:58 PM // 13:58

I'm all for "groups" that want to group to get a more proportionate size in loot drops on a comparative basis on one who solos. Compare the time it would take a soloist to clear a zone and get all those drops and then average it out for the time it would take a "group" to clear that same zone and average it out so each type of player would enjoy the benefits of the same amount of loot.

8 people can definitely romp through a zone a lot faster than I can as a soloist. Now, the question is, should they get "more" loot or "equal" loot?

I think a good place to test this out would be Diessa Lowlands, it's a pretty easy zone for a level 20 soloist and certainly easy for 8 level 20's in a group.
Have them both run the zone and clear it and keep track of the time and loot distribution, then balance according so that each person in the group and the soloist get equal proportions valued for their "time spent there".

As it is now, yes, the soloist rules when it comes to loot and intake of loot. He/she gets it all. Once you have all your skills, experience is nothing, it's all about the loot then and how much you can accumulate in a hours play, you know in like "loot per hour" equation.

I'll tell yah though about an hour is about all I can put into "farming". I'd rather go help noobs get through Thirsty River and Thunderhead Keep myself.

And they didn't nerf my solo ability at all, I never used those online templates anyway. I've experimented for hours and days trying out other combinatsions of skills, sometimes even "running" is involved. As they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

What they did do in some cases is make it take longer to kill the same amount of mobs in a certain amount of time, that I will give them. Having AI run on the AOE skills defnitely takes longer to take them all out now.

OH AND DON"T EMAIL ME ASKING FOR MY FARMING TEMPLATE, I WON'T EVEN REPLY. Sit down and figure one out yourself, it's more FUN that way. And when you DO figure it out KEEP YOUR FAT MOUTH SHUT and you won't see these nerfs.

Markaedw · Nov 30, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

I've been thinking about this the last few days, although I would like A-net to confirm this, I think I know the reason why they dislike solo farming.

96 people in Lions Arch; if they all solo farm, thats 96 worlds that have to be created, thats a lot of bandwidth they have to use (and pay for). If they go as a 6 person team, now that is only 16 worlds.

So what they really want to do is discourage solo farming (and ebay will take care of itself). Have the different weapon styles and assorted upgrade available from weapon crafter.

For instance, Thornbeard's Bow: eletric bowstring, +7 armor grip and 17% damage when enchated (like that ever happens), on an ivory: 8-15 k. This bow can be put together for a lot less, and Iyou'll enjoy it more,it like rebuilding your own car.

ecirbaf · Dec 03, 2005, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

For. I solo farm myself now and then. Not for the money, I've got plenty, but I find it relaxing.

The real problem isn't that hobbyists farm - noone, and I mean noone, cares about that. A hobbyist can at most farm for 8 hours per day, he'll make lots of dough but wont affect the economy. Seriously, ANet doesn't give a sh!t about hobbyist farmers.

The problem is the Farming Army. They're most conspicuous at Augury Rock - perhaps 200 monks, 1/2 of which are constantly running out the west exit, 1/2 of which are mules and just stand around, occasionally spamming WTS. These are professional farmers. Each human operator operates several mostly automated avatars. Their business is generating gold and, to a lesser degree, items, for sale on ebay.

These are the guys that ANet doesn't like. They screw the economy, they lag the servers (Augury Rock intl district is the only place in intl you'll get lag), and _they're not actually players_. They cost ANet money, because ANet needs to supply more servers to avoid lag (Augury Rock intl district is also the only place in intl which has more than one district).

ANet would love to find a way to stop these guys.

That said, the recent AI update wasn't a solo-farming nerf. It was an AI update.
If you search the fora here, you'll find that lots of people have repeatedly asked for an update to the AI so that the monsters wouldn't simply stand around in AoE spells. ANet complied, like they have with so many other requests we players have made.

excellent post, btw

ghostlyranger · Dec 03, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

, 1/2 of which are mules and just stand around, occasionally spamming WTS.

they not spamming WTS. but WTB, if u cant understand wat they spam. dun simply post here

dawnrain · Dec 03, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

I am neutral. If people enjoy solo-farming let them. However, they should be aware that if the game is designed properly a solo party should have no chance against against a balanced team comprised of comparably leveled opponents. Any environment which allows this to happen is NOT designed properly. Those environments will hopefully be corrected.

The Fox · Dec 03, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Neutral
A good example of why farming isn't good or evil is the game Sacred. If anyone ever played it on hardcore mod they would have known how fun it was because of the awesome community... (not the super buggy game)

So what are the notable differences that makes most GW players selfish when compared to the prior mentioned game?

1.) In Sacred items were given for free to complete strangers simply because the high level guys had more than they could use and had NO gold sinks. aka (the drop rate in GW is very pathetic for both solo farming and group farming). Per kill this rate is the same for everyone -- LOW. Also the concept of gold sinks like FOW armor is the cause of people being greedy... They have to be to get what they want! Sure they don't "need" these gold sinks, but they do want them so it's irrelivant wither or not they are needed. Tell me... just why does this game need gold sinks???

2.) Capacity to give away items also differs drom Sacred. In Sacred one is able to drop items on the ground in locations with high populations. This means that it's not costly to search for people who will be able to use the gear you found.

Final thoughts... People farmed constantly in sacred and didn't hurt the community. Instead they made everyone happy. If everyone being happy is not a good thing then just make the game a grind and people will work for what they want.

If this is not the goal, then reduce the transaction costs of sharing items and for heavens sake REMOVE gold sinks! They are then number one reason people are stingy. I WANT A NICE COMMUNITY!

(on a side note)- unless henge swords are not returned to the game or removed from it entirely... gold sinks will always remain, and farming will be encouraged.

Banebow · Dec 03, 2005, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fox

Tell me... just why does this game need gold sinks???

Lets pretend no gold sinks existed. Quickly, gold would build up in the economy. Massive inflation would follow. Before long, charr carvings would be going for 1 platinum. Ectoplasms, or sapphires, or some other item, would become the currency, and gold would be useless. I do not think that is such a great idea, since that would just alienate new players.

The Fox · Dec 03, 2005, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Well you're right... bartering would be the primary method of trade. BUT it wouldn't be in ecto or shards :P because fow armor wouldn't be a gold sink! Instead it would be in "perfect" weapons/shields/foci. Char carving wouldn't go for 1K because nobody would want that 1K :P... hehehe as you said, "gold would be useless".

Now how would new players be alienated from play? Sure they wouldn't have items to barter with, but without gold sinks there would be no reason to barter other than to get that "perfect" weapon that don't make a noticable difference anyways. Good weapons are easily availiable in the game, so removing gold sinks would not alienate those poor new players. After all, this game is built around making it easy for new players to complete.

In fact, without the need to sell everything to aquire those large piles of gold (for a gold sink), people would be more inclined to give the non-perfect stuff away, and since newbs don't have those perfect items to barter with, they couldn't be charged for services. Running would no longer be a service, because the people who can barter with their perfect weapons, wouldn't need ran. WOW people would have to play through the game like it was meant to be played - by fighting.

Now you'll probably say that gold is necessary to be able to buy special stuff like prestigous armor or black dye. Sure I want the prestigous stuff, but optimally those times should be based on skill aka experience/deaths or something the truely guages accomplishments (not hours spent playing). I'll resist mentioning the poor system of rank, which doesn't account for losses

Gold is good for one thing only. It makes trading easier. Trade is fine... but when you add the sink, everything goes down the drain. Solution: drop the gold sinks (I'd just remove gold completely... ok i'm dreaming), establish better trading systems, and watch the fun factor go up.

Just one last thing off my chest... People play for two reasons. They are addicted to the game -> gold sinks worth mentioning, or they actually enjoy the game. My opinion is that the latter is a better method of modeling a game, and should be our reason to buy chapter 2.

twicky_kid · Dec 04, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fox

Well you're right... bartering would be the primary method of trade. BUT it wouldn't be in ecto or shards :P because fow armor wouldn't be a gold sink! Instead it would be in "perfect" weapons/shields/foci. Char carving wouldn't go for 1K because nobody would want that 1K :P... hehehe as you said, "gold would be useless".

Now how would new players be alienated from play? Sure they wouldn't have items to barter with, but without gold sinks there would be no reason to barter other than to get that "perfect" weapon that don't make a noticable difference anyways. Good weapons are easily availiable in the game, so removing gold sinks would not alienate those poor new players. After all, this game is built around making it easy for new players to complete.

In fact, without the need to sell everything to aquire those large piles of gold (for a gold sink), people would be more inclined to give the non-perfect stuff away, and since newbs don't have those perfect items to barter with, they couldn't be charged for services. Running would no longer be a service, because the people who can barter with their perfect weapons, wouldn't need ran. WOW people would have to play through the game like it was meant to be played - by fighting.

Now you'll probably say that gold is necessary to be able to buy special stuff like prestigous armor or black dye. Sure I want the prestigous stuff, but optimally those times should be based on skill aka experience/deaths or something the truely guages accomplishments (not hours spent playing). I'll resist mentioning the poor system of rank, which doesn't account for losses

Gold is good for one thing only. It makes trading easier. Trade is fine... but when you add the sink, everything goes down the drain. Solution: drop the gold sinks (I'd just remove gold completely... ok i'm dreaming), establish better trading systems, and watch the fun factor go up.

Just one last thing off my chest... People play for two reasons. They are addicted to the game -> gold sinks worth mentioning, or they actually enjoy the game. My opinion is that the latter is a better method of modeling a game, and should be our reason to buy chapter 2.

an addiction to this game is so wide spread its kind of scary. people complain and get all stressed 7 months later when there are no monthly fees. i can understand if i was paying $XX a month i want some kind of say so if the game changes. addiction is what keeps these people here. if you liked the game you wouldn't be stressed or complaining as much (there will always be flaws).

henge swords do not need to be removed from the game. i only use the sword for my runner and 1 build for my monk. other than that a 20/20 staff will beat the henge sword. having 70-80+ armor on my non-warrior class is much better than that +5 energy.

the only gold sink that really hurts the game is the skill cost. i was yelling when it i got up to 600g for a skill. for those people that had it up to 5k a skill you didn't have to get it that high. you can unlock every skill on the game with 3 pve slots.

Banebow · Dec 04, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fox

<snip>

I don't think you understand. If gold has no value, the only way for a player to acquire items is from pure luck. A new player coming into the game will have almost zero chance of ever attaining that max damage crystalline sword. Armor would have to be handed to you at each town, with no cost, because you could never afford the materials. Weapon crafters would have to start handing out weapons for free, since no one would have gold to buy the weapons. Dye traders would have to be removed from the game, since they barter in gold. Max damage weapons worth anything would get harder and harder to get, soon the only items of worth would be max damage 15>50 10/10 penetration +30 health fellblades and chaos axes.

And you are incorrect, charr carvings would be in demand. Once players realized that they could never attain a perfect weapon, collector items would be the norm. Griffon wings and other similar items would skyrocket in value.

Removing gold from the system will fix a few problems, but cause an astronomical amount of others.

Senator Tom · Dec 04, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

why should invincimonk be nerfed? just because so many people take that as the easy way out? it still takes money to make one of those. the invincimonk was very clever, nothing wrong about using it int he underworld. same with ractoths warrior necro build. he used his brain and though outside of the box to come up with that, theres nothin wrong with soloing the underworld if you can find a way to do it. its not like your cheating or something

twicky_kid · Dec 04, 2005, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

why should invincimonk be nerfed? just because so many people take that as the easy way out? it still takes money to make one of those. the invincimonk was very clever, nothing wrong about using it int he underworld. same with ractoths warrior necro build. he used his brain and though outside of the box to come up with that, theres nothin wrong with soloing the underworld if you can find a way to do it. its not like your cheating or something

after the initial investment to build an invisimonk you could not make an unlimited amount of money. start up cost means nothing.

its nothing to do with morals or cheating. its all about the econemy and prices. more soloing more inflation. also degrades pve into a solo only playing field where you have to rely on henches to do mission b/c everyone else is soloing.

there have been more and more suggestions to fix the loot distribution. i think we are all sick of the low drops and no team reward. they see these suggestions. i will be fixed just give them time.

Banebow · Dec 04, 2005, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

i will be fixed just give them time.

We have been talking about it for almost two weeks now, certainly some of us have been thinking about the problem for over a month. Now, it may be like spirit spam, that ANet just needs time to figure out good ways to solve the problem, or it may never get a "fix" since ANet does not see a problem. I know I certainly have a bit of trouble waiting patiently when ANet has not even said that they see a problem, or that the problem is being addressed. Atleast, for instance, I know new content is coming with chapter 2, so I don't find difficulty in waiting for it. Even a "we are working on it" would be enough for me, but I have seen nothing but silence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

why should invincimonk be nerfed? just because so many people take that as the easy way out? it still takes money to make one of those. the invincimonk was very clever, nothing wrong about using it int he underworld. same with ractoths warrior necro build. he used his brain and though outside of the box to come up with that, theres nothin wrong with soloing the underworld if you can find a way to do it. its not like your cheating or something

Were did this come from? Who was asking for the invinci-monk to be nerfed? One or two people perhaps, but the majority here don't care if you want to solo, so long as drops are balanced for parties.

kbealow · Dec 04, 2005, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Yeah I'm Neutral...I can care less if someone can farm or not...but since farming...or as I like to call it "hunting" (just sounds fitting

) with my characters is pointless. If I want to hunt I just play an old favorite Lineage II.

~kbealow